Sep 5 2012
DRIVING ARMED – Facing The Law
A Foundation for Success
First and foremost, it’s critical that you research, understand, and comply with all state and local laws regarding traveling with a firearm. Every state has different laws on this matter. I frequently travel through Oregon and Washington, and even though these states touch each other, they do not share firearm laws or concealed carry licenses. For that reason, pulling over and re-evaluating how I’m packing my gear is just part of my routine as I enter a new state. It is each individual’s responsibility to learn and comply with the laws of each state, county, and municipality they pass through. The term “But, I didn’t know, officer” is not a get out of jail free card.
Here are a few examples of how vastly law can differ depending on where you are:
- In some states, you are obligated by law to inform an officer that you have a weapon in the vehicle if you are pulled over. In other states, this obligation only extends to the circumstance in which the officer asks you if you have any weapons in the vehicle.
- Depending on whether or not you have a concealed carry license, some states require that your firearms be unloaded, locked up and out of reach of the driver. Some states say that the firearm must remain in plain sight, or remain hidden from public view.
And since we can often be our own worst enemy when it comes to the law, do yourself a favor and print off copies of local and state statutes of places you will be driving through. This will make a reference for your travels. Oh, and I do not mean to go to someone’s blog, or a forum and print off their interpretation of the law: this will do nothing but get you into trouble.
A great way to help keep things organized is to develop a “flight plan” if you will. If you are traveling through several sates this can really help simplify the processes of the complying with the laws. Use a three ring binder and dividers to keep information divided by state. A color code system, maps, and overview sheets for quick reference can help as well.
Another important thing to have on hand is your concealed carry licenses and/or permits. Remember, if you don’t have them on you, it’s the same as not having them at all, and you will be treated accordingly by law enforcement.
All that being said, it’s imperative that you keep all your paperwork (registration and proof of insurance included) separate from your guns in your vehicle. The last thing an officer wants to see when he asks you for your driver’s license, registration, and proof of insurance is you reaching into your glovebox that contains a firearm. You’ll have a Glock screwed into your ear in seconds.
If You Get Pulled Over
Seeing as how an officer will have already run your plates by the time he approaches the vehicle, he may already know that you are a concealed carry license holder (depending on the state you are in). Even if he isn’t made aware right off the bat, here are some common courtesy’s you can implement to make the entire process easier on both of you.
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Try to pull off to well-lit area. This is for both your safety and the officer’s safety. If you can’t pull off to well-lit area, turn on your dome lights in your vehicle. |
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Don’t fumble around for your paperwork or your firearm while you are waiting for the officer to approach. Keep your hands on the steering wheel or up and in plain sight. Wait to retrieve your paperwork until the officer asks you to do so. |
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If the state you are in requires you to volunteer disclosure of any weapons in the vehicle, be sure to do this. |
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If an officer asks if you have any weapons in the vehicle and you choose to answer him/her, be honest. You are required by law not to lie to an officer. If you have a concealed carry license, offer to show it to the officer. |
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If the officer wants to take your firearm: keeping your hands in plain sight, suggest that he or she retrieve it themselves (even if it is off your belt). This keeps you out of a situation where you are handling a firearm while dealing with law enforcement, and could save you being shot. |
While you may be up to snuff with all the latest legislature and changes in firearms laws, law enforcement may not be. Believe it or not, police officers are just as guilty of not knowing the firearm transportation laws as us civilians are. This is probably attributed to the fact that not everyone can be an expert in all parts of the law. Police officers, just like you and me, are human.
While I suggest keeping copies of the laws on hand, I don’t suggest you use them as a basis to argue too much with an officer; even if he or she may not be interpreting the local firearms transportation laws correctly, or is asking for your firearm. I have friends who have had their firearms taken at a traffic stop just so the officer could clear the firearm during the stop, and give it back once the ticket is written. This is annoying, and time consuming, and maybe even flat out wrong. But let’s look at it from the officer’s point of view: traffic stops are dangerous business, and they have been trained from day one to separate firearms and people. Not to mention, if you match the description of someone who was involved in a violent crime, there is valid reason for concern on the officer’s part.
I’m not taking sides here, what I’m saying is, every story has two sides. So, if you feel that what the officer is doing is unlawful, calmly point out the exact statute in question or ask for his supervisor to come down and straighten this whole thing out. Another option (and probably a better one), is to cooperate with the officer, even if it involves being cuffed and thrown in the back of the cop car. You can always take it up with his supervisor or in court later.
What You Need to Know
Overall, the most important things to remember is that laws change as your enter different states, counties, and municipalities. Plan for these changes, research ahead of time and make a game plan for your travels.
Staying calm, respectful and honest during a traffic stop can make all the difference for how well it goes for both you and the officer.
Laws change about as often as you blink. For up to date information on firearms laws and reciprocity, set these links in your sights: Handgun Law , Gun Laws by State. and USA Carry. These websites frequently update their information so that you can keep up with what is current.
This is the second installment in the Driving Armed series of articles. Be sure to check out the first installment Driving Armed – Safely Stowing Your Firearm
© Packing Pretty, Grace McKee 2012
Sep 06, 2012 @ 11:30:30
Actually it’s not required by law to respond when asked if there’s any guns in the car in all states. Of course that depends on the nature of the stop. Traffic stop, you have no obligation, even in California, to respond. You simply ask how you can help the officer, or be quiet, or mention that you’re wondering why you’re being pulled over, or ask if you’re being detained so they can get back to their legal obligations. Asking if you have guns in your car is a casual question you’re not obliged to answer. If you do answer, yes, be honest…but realize that the cop, because of their extraordinary ability to be safe in the line of work while trampling your rights, can demand you get out while he locates and isolates your gun(s)…so best to keep quiet. Heck, in my county, cops don’t want to know because they don’t want to have to go through the extra time of “making safe” your guns.
Sep 06, 2012 @ 17:29:07
Very good advice! The only thing I would question is the safety in requesting an officer to retrieve a hot gun from you themselves, over carefully making the gun cold yourself and handing it over grip forward, muzzle down.
Dec 04, 2012 @ 03:07:08
I’ve run across a copule of gun owners that should have been required to take some classes. Anyhow, all joking aside, I’m going to say no on all accounts. The Declaration of Independence gives us certain unalienable rights such as the right to live. I take that as a right to protect my self or family from harm. This does not mean I have to ask permission to protect my self and my family nor does it state I must pay a fee. Father more, the Second Amendment doesn’t state You have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms after you pay your tax fee or conceal/open carry fee.
Sep 07, 2012 @ 10:31:58
This is definitely a hot-button topic, with strong opinions on both sides, not only from officers but from gunnies.
Case in point is that you point out how all of us carry people need to know exactly what the law is in the various locations through which we travel. But in those same locations the local constabulary are given a pass for NOT knowing the laws that they are paid to enforce in their HOME areas. Seems a bit one sided, no? Why do “I” have to know the laws better and more intimately than those who have the authority and power to abuse them, with little or no consequences? That opinion in no way negates our responsibility to know and comply with the laws, it’s just one of those irritating realities that pisses me off.
Unfortunately the LEOs hold all of the cards to make your day miserable and cost you mega bucks to extricate yourself from their biases without cost to themselves. That said, there is a lot of antidotal evidence to suggest that a lot of LEOs will give you a pass once they know that you are a CCL holder and are being polite. It’s a crap shoot to be sure, and your mileage WILL vary.
My opinion is to keep your hands on the steering wheel, in full view of the officer and politely ask him/her the reason for stopping you. Then comply with instructions as much as possible, but remain silent about my firearm unless compelled by law to mention it. If asked to be relieved of my firearm I will politely ask the officer to not be handling an unfamiliar firearm, but to leave it where it is and if we could please just conduct business with me keeping my hands in sight at all times while making no sudden moves. My basic premise is that ANY unnecessary handling of a firearm is a greater danger than leaving it where it is, especially in a holster or in a secured container.
At NO time should you allow an officer to enter you vehicle to conduct a search. If they ask me to exit the vehicle and possibly allow them to remove a firearm if I have on my person, I will, but I will lock the door behind me and state that they do NOT have my permission to search my vehicle or my person. This protects YOU in court even if it may cause immediate issues. I could easily be wrong, but I don’t believe that any states require you to allow an officer into your vehicle to retrieve a firearm. Once you have exited the vehicle, you have been separated from the dangerous object and been rendered unarmed.
The police are also trained to try to intimidate you in order to get you to give away your 4th and 5th amendment protections. Just remember, if he’s still ASKING, then he knows he can’t legally perform the search.
Sep 07, 2012 @ 17:09:14
My wife and I got pulled over a few days ago, handed the officer my carry permit with my license, he handed it back and we were good to go. Kept my hands on the wheel unless he asked for something. Very professional young man, he did a great job!
Sep 07, 2012 @ 21:00:11
All of those are a legal and maybe even good points… but in MY experience the three biggest things are to be legal, professional and nice to the cop! here’s why:
1. be legal — Look I know its a pain in the ass to have to know the law better than the cops but it keeps me out of jail (for example, I’ve been told by a LEO that I can’t carry on a bicycle before because it was “brandishing”, long story made short a copy of the law came out of my pack and the cop apologized and walked away).
2. be professional — The smarter you are when dealing with this the quicker and easier it will probably go! If on the other had you find a jackass of a LEO or you completely at like an idiot well at that point you and your car are going for a ride neither of you will enjoy — however acting professionally will help save your ass when it comes time to talk to the supervisor and/or DA/county attorney (particularly if you are on camera and given that we live in the age of dash-cams YOU ARE ALWAYS ON CAMERA SO ACT LIKE IT)!
3. be nice — Yes, mom’s old advise still seems to work. if you’re nice to the guy/gal working way to many hours (in all weather conditions and used to dealing with idiots) then they will probably be nice to you… on the other hand if they aren’t (assuming the dash-cam is still going) you look good on camera and they look like a tool.
Sep 07, 2012 @ 21:03:11
All of those are a legal and maybe even good points… but in MY experience the three biggest things are to be legal, professional and nice to the cop! here’s why:
1. be legal — Look I know its a pain in the ass to have to know the law better than the cops but it keeps me out of jail (for example, I’ve been told by a LEO that I can’t carry on a bicycle before because it was “brandishing”, long story made short a copy of the law came out of my pack and the cop apologized and walked away).
2. be professional — The smarter you are when dealing with this the quicker and easier it will probably go! If on the other had you find a jackass of a LEO or you completely act like an idiot well at that point you and your car are going for a ride neither of you will enjoy — however acting professionally will help save your ass when it comes time to talk to the supervisor and/or DA/county attorney (particularly if you are on camera and given that we live in the age of dash-cams YOU ARE ALWAYS ON CAMERA SO ACT LIKE IT)!
3. be nice — Yes, mom’s old advise still seems to work. if you’re nice to the guy/gal working way to many hours (in all weather conditions and used to dealing with idiots) then they will probably be nice to you… on the other hand if they aren’t (assuming the dash-cam is still going) you look good on camera and they look like a tool.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 04:01:18
I also am usually prepared to provide my DL and weapons license to the officer. I was pulled over for speeding near my house, and he never asked me to get out of the car or anything. I was very polite, informed him that I was carrying (not required in my state, but is a courtesy) and he let me off with a warning. Sometimes jut being respectful is the key.
Sep 30, 2012 @ 20:51:31
In CC class, I was actually taught to have my CCL, D.L., and Insurance, all in that order from top to bottom (and hands on steering wheel), ready when the LEO approached. This seems to work seeing as I haven’t had a bad experience yet and haven’t had to surrender my firearm. With this being said, this procedure, in the state I reside in, is expected of me and for an LEO to ask to see my firearm, is actually a very big no no and highly distasteful (according to local LEO’s). We are actually about to have Open Carry as of Nov. 1st so we will see how everything goes with local LEO’s after that.
Oct 02, 2012 @ 13:52:37
Cops are civilians . I think you meant citizen.
Oct 05, 2012 @ 19:41:21
“While you may be up to snuff with all the latest legislature and changes in firearms laws, law enforcement may not be.”
This drives me batty. I understand that no one police officer (or any human, for that matter) can know all the laws, since we have ridiculous amount of very nitpicky regulations in this country.
That said, I’ve met ONE cop in our region that actually knows Florida law in regards to guns in cars. One. Every single other cop (and I know a lot of them, since Dad used to be one) I’ve ever talked to about this subject has claimed there is a “Two” or “Three Step Rule”. It doesn’t exist. I know that specific bit of legalese by heart, and there is absolutely nothing like this supposed rule in the law, but they swear by it. Aaaargh!
Nov 02, 2012 @ 16:38:29
If an officer asks if you have any weapons in the vehicle and you choose to answer him/her, be honest. You are required by law not to lie to an officer. If you have a concealed carry license, offer to show it to the officer.
Care to elaborate? You most certainly are not required to not lie to an officer, and will notice that they lie all the time. You typically can’t lie while being investigated for a crime, but that is just obstruction. You can’t lie to a federal officer acting in their duties, so don’t lie to that forest ranger…
As always, your best bet is to stay SILENT. That’s always ok.
Dec 02, 2012 @ 19:49:57
If you have a CCW permit then it is best to give that to the officer when you give him your DL. If you don’t and he runs your name, it is going to “hit” as being in the fingerprint database. The only reason you would be in this database is if you are a police officer, have a CCW permit, or are a felon.. I would rather them know upfront and not have to assume that I am a felon. Know what I mean? I don’t know if it is the same in other states, but in LA; having a CCW permit automatically means you give consent to a pat down. Once you give them your permit, they will pat you down, take your weapon off you, and give it back at the end of the stop.
Also, if you have a Conceal Permit and are traveling through a state that acknowledges your state’s permit, then you do not have to know the exact laws in that state. When the state agreed to accept your permit, this means they acknowledge that your state’s laws are close enough to theirs to allow you to use your permit based on the law in the state that it was issued in. This means that you only have to legally know the laws in your state, where the permit is issued. Just don’t try to drive thru IL with a gun.
Dec 11, 2012 @ 08:51:39
Good advice. I am good friends with several deputies in my area. Most cops are just good guys trying to keep you and your loved ones safe. Most of us are just good guys trying to go about living our lives. Doing your best to follow the laws and cooperating courteously with LOE’s is a whole lot smarter and safer than the alternative.